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Ethanol: FAQ Tuesday, May 13, 2008
CBC News -- A cornerstone of the federal government's environmental policy, the use of ethanol as an alternative to fossil fuels in vehicles has become more complicated in recent months as a number of aid groups have linked its production to rising food prices. The issue has attracted enough attention that, in recent weeks, representatives from two world organizations — the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank — have urged caution in promoting biofuels. "We don't think it's advisable to vilify biofuels and make it responsible for all evil at the moment," Juergen Voegele, director of the agriculture and rural development department at the World Bank, told the Reuters news agency on May 8. "Nor do we think we can continue to support biofuels the way it is supported at the moment in many countries."
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	Tuesday, May 13, 2008 CBC News -- A cornerstone of the federal government's environmental policy, the use of ethanol as an alternative to fossil fuels in vehicles has become more complicated in recent months as a number of aid groups have linked its production to rising food prices. The issue has attracted enough attention that, in recent weeks, representatives from two world organizations — the International Monetary Fund and the World Bank — have urged caution in promoting biofuels. "We don't think it's advisable to vilify biofuels and make it responsible for all evil at the moment," Juergen Voegele, director of the agriculture and rural development department at the World Bank, told the Reuters news agency on May 8. "Nor do we think we can continue to support biofuels the way it is supported at the moment in many countries." Visit CBC News for full article

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Houckster Champion Author Atlanta Posts:4,370 Points:482,560 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: 5/23/2008 9:42:03 AM	Ignore Houckster Report Abuse
	Of course no one thought it through. During the Bush administration, planning and evaluation of the probable impact of governmental decisions has been lacking. The politics of the situation was all that mattered. There was little consideration of the impact when a large amount of farm production that people around the world depend upon was suddenly not available or less available. If biofuels are to be any part of our energy solution, they will have to be made from something other than cultivated crops. Again, the Bush administration has largely been silent on this. We need an energy plan, it has to be a coordinated one and we have to use land considered unsuitable for normal crop cultivation to produce biofuel feedstocks. We need the government to coordinate and fund research where it is not being done in the private sector. And we need to get the heck away from ethanol and use something proper like butanol.
jmuse Veteran Author Long Island Posts:343 Points:74,050 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 5/20/2008 9:20:17 AM	Ignore jmuse Report Abuse
	I guess nobody thought it through.
POLELANE Champion Author Ohio Posts:1,222 Points:120,475 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 11:45:52 AM	Ignore POLELANE Report Abuse
	penn doctor jd oc/la you tell folks how to use their corn ? eat your words
OSHAPT Sophomore Author Virginia Posts:161 Points:60,295 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 11:12:03 AM	Ignore OSHAPT Report Abuse
	The corn should be a food source and the remaining waste for fuel!
PenDoctrJD Champion Author Orange County Posts:2,813 Points:1,262,040 Joined:Aug 2001	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 10:52:37 AM	Ignore PenDoctrJD Report Abuse
	Corn based ethanol is not the answer.
ladyjj All-Star Author Tennessee Posts:531 Points:44,245 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 10:02:59 AM	Ignore ladyjj Report Abuse
	You See they say use these bio fuels then go back and say no don't use them. Heck who knows what is right or wrong. Here they want the food for other countries cause corn has gone up so they are telling us don't promote it. You know until and I mean until someone gets into office that doesn't have the oil companies in their back pocket this kind of thing is going to keep going on
EarlyMoose Champion Author Seattle Posts:1,359 Points:594,340 Joined:Dec 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 10:02:38 AM	Ignore EarlyMoose Report Abuse
	Ethanol is a bad idea.
colrhino Veteran Author Atlanta Posts:329 Points:101,070 Joined:Nov 2007	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 10:02:29 AM	Ignore colrhino Report Abuse
	what is ethanol? is it in the periodic table of elements?
imnotadufus Champion Author Virginia Posts:1,094 Points:41,115 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 10:02:15 AM	Ignore imnotadufus Report Abuse
	"Instead of grains, we all should learn to love the flavor of imported Soylent Green." Oh no, Soylent Green is...... Soylent Green is people!"
boniface4jesus Rookie Author Gary Posts:40 Points:10,275 Joined:Mar 2006	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:59:24 AM	Ignore boniface4jesus Report Abuse
	Well, I do not know which side is accurate. Corn growers paid more money to sell corn for fuel would probably say, it doesn't hurt the world food situation. That other factors are contributing, and/or causing food shortages, and higher food costs. Relief agencies would probably criticize the Ethonal fuel.
notsurprised Sophomore Author Portland Posts:106 Points:7,150 Joined:Mar 2008	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:57:27 AM	Ignore notsurprised Report Abuse
	The fact that people don't want to face is that we may have to lower the population of the world to maintain our quality of life in the face of declining oil. If food is expensive and countries are at war about it then people will have less children (in theory anyways).
mckellyb Champion Author Las Vegas Posts:2,766 Points:523,980 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:55:57 AM	Ignore mckellyb Report Abuse
	It's stupid to use from purely a cost-per-mile POV. E-85 is what, 30 cents less expensive than regular unleaded. E-85 vehices using E-85 get at least 30 PERCENT worse MPG on ethanol, so you must fill up more often, resulting in a net loss. Additionally, exchanging food for fuel is flat-out moronic. The government gave out huge subsidies to do get this whole ethanol mess rolling, so we're paying for it twice...in taxes and in increased food prices for EVERYONE. Way to go! WE'RE NUMBER ONE!!!!!!!
blairsgrove All-Star Author Toronto Posts:532 Points:150,230 Joined:May 2003	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:55:45 AM	Ignore blairsgrove Report Abuse
	I have no problem with ethanol
acknot Veteran Author Seattle Posts:359 Points:537,785 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:51:40 AM	Ignore acknot Report Abuse
	Brazil uses ethanol and look how poor that country is. But they're not starving. They don't use foof for fuel. We're just using the wrong feedstock in the ethanol plants. Common sense, you don't use food for fuel, you just robbing Peter to pay Paul.
esquared All-Star Author Oklahoma City Posts:993 Points:547,675 Joined:Jan 2006	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:51:31 AM	Ignore esquared Report Abuse
	But, Gerund1, biofuels can be only a stopgap "solution," even using cellulosic ethanol production, if we are to address the human contribution to climate change, aka global warming.
Howmuchtofillit All-Star Author Trenton Posts:761 Points:128,650 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:48:22 AM	Ignore Howmuchtofillit Report Abuse
	Ethanol is a joke. Look how well it has brought the prices down at the pumps and lowered our food bills. Fuel cells are the only real way to go. The government knows that, but BIG OIL runs the government so we will have to keep suffering.
MarkJM Sophomore Author Little Rock Posts:183 Points:462,360 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:47:50 AM	Ignore MarkJM Report Abuse
	There has to be better options for fuel that using food. Sounds like a bad idea
kingdick Champion Author Minnesota Posts:17,549 Points:1,411,145 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:47:42 AM	Ignore kingdick Report Abuse
	RochBear Personal tests and experience. Very few facts in that article mostly opinions.
RPetty Champion Author Maryland Posts:3,954 Points:894,130 Joined:Jul 2004	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:43:11 AM	Ignore RPetty Report Abuse
	Ethanol Entirely is NoT The answer!
Panama Red Champion Author San Diego Posts:2,002 Points:830,015 Joined:Jun 2004	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:43:10 AM	Ignore Panama Red Report Abuse
	Ethanal made from corn is not the answer to the fuel crisis.
Gerund1 All-Star Author Toronto Posts:686 Points:771,045 Joined:Apr 2003	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:39:58 AM	Ignore Gerund1 Report Abuse
	People, not to mention news agencies, vilify biofuels because they are a convients target that people can understand. What is much less mentioned is the fact that the current process used to create these biofuels use as much or even more energy than they produce, at a net loss. Using a better vegetation, such as switch grass which grows where corn, wheat & soya crops cannot, and using less energy to generate/produce gas output would be more sensible and cost effective. Which means it will not happen.
Japsmith All-Star Author Tacoma Posts:838 Points:158,815 Joined:Sep 2007	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:38:02 AM	Ignore Japsmith Report Abuse
	Making ethanol mandatory is not a good call. Especially if we are in a food shortage. Is there an option built in this mandatory ethanol usage if there is a food shortage? Let ethanol stand on its own merits. It should do one of three things, be popular, moderately used, or sparsely used.
ariccougar Rookie Author Utah Posts:91 Points:9,570 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:33:51 AM	Ignore ariccougar Report Abuse
	Vilify biofuels all you want. Only an Idiot would die of hunger so his car would have gas. But thats not even the issue. Biofuels should NOT be made from FOOD, if they cant make it from something else, then they are idiots and deserve to die in jail from hunger. We care about Burmah's people going hungry, but not Americans? Thats messed up. As others have said... there is plenty of oil, and other sources of power, other biofuels, solar, wind, hydro, nuclear, and even coal to oil. Whats the problem? Just do it! And quit messing with our food supply. Bush is just trying to save face. Someone needs to eliminate ethanol immediately!
glazarides Veteran Author Akron Posts:306 Points:314,365 Joined:Jul 2006	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:31:39 AM	Ignore glazarides Report Abuse
	The more I learn about this stuff, the more pessimistic I become that anything will get better any time soon.
gas_too_high Veteran Author Columbus Posts:274 Points:289,520 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:31:24 AM	Ignore gas_too_high Report Abuse
	If ethanol is ever to be a substitute or even a supplement to gasoline, governments on both sides of the 49th parallel need to encourage the production of ethanol from non-food plant sources. Otherwise we just move the price problem from transportation to food, which if anything is worse.
MacGyver_1701 Champion Author Indiana Posts:4,809 Points:1,059,825 Joined:Feb 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:30:48 AM	Ignore MacGyver_1701 Report Abuse
	The price of grain is affected by ethanol production, but the price of oil and natural gas are probably more to blame for it all. It now costs farmers over 300% more to produce the same crop as it did 5 years ago. Fuel and fertilizers are consuming all extra profits that might be made from the higher cost of grain. The extreme burst in fuel prices are driving everything up at an alarming rate. Food for now, but before long, it will be everything with a higher price.
normcrocker All-Star Author Tennessee Posts:519 Points:530,675 Joined:Sep 2006	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:23:29 AM	Ignore normcrocker Report Abuse
	One problem the critics face, they ignore the production of animal feed from the dry milling residue. Of course, the same people are usually against feeding corn to cattle as that's also "inefficient". Some people will only be satisfied when there are no cars and we're all vegetarians.
The_WB Champion Author Detroit Posts:3,154 Points:367,850 Joined:Apr 2007	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:22:53 AM	Ignore The_WB Report Abuse
	It is not the answer.
eaglev Veteran Author Oklahoma City Posts:462 Points:230,040 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:22:15 AM	Ignore eaglev Report Abuse
	They don't make it known that you get 10% less mpg with 10% mixture.
RochBear Champion Author Minnesota Posts:1,168 Points:400,925 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:18:00 AM	Ignore RochBear Report Abuse
	KindDick, where are your facts? Read the artical, it says otherwise! And it has Facts!
eaglev Veteran Author Oklahoma City Posts:462 Points:230,040 Joined:Jul 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:17:28 AM	Ignore eaglev Report Abuse
	Using Food to make fuel while we have an abundance in the ground and just off shore. It looks like the priorities are in the wrong place
mike2scooter Champion Author Detroit Posts:5,240 Points:1,031,505 Joined:Aug 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:14:59 AM	Ignore mike2scooter Report Abuse
	The fact is that the more we use grains, such as corn to make ethanol, the more people around the world starve...the rise of the price of food is directly linked to the use of corn and such to make this very questionable 'fuel'. Is Al Gore going to go to Haiti or Africa and explain to the masses of people who can't afford bread that he believed corn is better used to make this silly fuel than to feed their children?
kingdick Champion Author Minnesota Posts:17,549 Points:1,411,145 Joined:Aug 2004	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:13:46 AM	Ignore kingdick Report Abuse
	Ethanol uses more crude oil than it saves. More pollution. More Repairs. Ethanol as a general fuel is a HOAX of a HOAX !! Get Rid of IT.
krmack All-Star Author Illinois Posts:601 Points:93,485 Joined:Apr 2008	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:11:59 AM	Ignore krmack Report Abuse
	biofuels should be and already are an alternative to gas.
Liberty2000 Sophomore Author Indianapolis Posts:214 Points:28,260 Joined:Jun 2007	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:10:55 AM	Ignore Liberty2000 Report Abuse
	Ethanol can be made from non-edible plants, biomass, agricultural waste, etc. It's just not quite as easy as using grains but it makes more sense.
DST43 Champion Author Oklahoma Posts:1,615 Points:285,825 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:10:51 AM	Ignore DST43 Report Abuse
	just lower the gas price
McNasties Champion Author Milwaukee Posts:3,850 Points:735,775 Joined:May 2006	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:08:35 AM	Ignore McNasties Report Abuse
	Instead of grains, we all should learn to love the flavor of imported Soylent Green.
laddyboy62 All-Star Author Riverside Posts:985 Points:876,610 Joined:Mar 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:04:28 AM	Ignore laddyboy62 Report Abuse
	a trade off...fuel...for food...
KingBiscuit Champion Author Raleigh Posts:2,590 Points:583,520 Joined:Aug 2006	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:03:44 AM	Ignore KingBiscuit Report Abuse
	It's a plot by Big Ethanol!
phatride92 Champion Author Kansas Posts:3,152 Points:821,700 Joined:Oct 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:03:34 AM	Ignore phatride92 Report Abuse
	This was where the new money was going to be made. Getting it to the pump has become an issue!
kaaato Rookie Author Boston Posts:52 Points:59,765 Joined:May 2007	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 9:02:36 AM	Ignore kaaato Report Abuse
	So much for paying farmers NOT to grow crops - now when we need them the farms are fading faster than the price of gas is rising. We could stop building on every piece of extra land and start more farming - then there would be enough for food and fuel.
ccf_jeff Champion Author St. Louis Posts:5,306 Points:895,995 Joined:Sep 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 8:59:59 AM	Ignore ccf_jeff Report Abuse
	"If Europeans and other countries can implement this, then why can't we? Even gas powered cars over there get WAY better gas mileage than us." The consumers pretty much dictate things like the gas mileage of vehicles offered for sale here. Prices here have been less than half what they were in Europe and we were voting with our wallets for gas guzzlers. The SUVs and big 4X4s were the big money makers for the manufacturers here in the States. The Europeans were paying $5 and $6 a gallon, however, and were voting with their wallets for the gas sippers. There is no need to pass laws to have the government dictate what kind of mileage we should get. It's up to us the consumers. GM & perhaps Ford have quit making min-vans because they quit selling once the gas prices jumped so dramatically. They're not making nearly as many SUVs any more either. Meanwhile everyone's been jumping on the hybrid bandwagon and high mileage diesels are headed this way as well. Even new refineries ready to process more diesel are due to come online soon. We're the boss here, and I'm not talking about via our government, at least with regards to the gas mileage of the vehicles offered for sale here.
rod1965 Veteran Author Portland Posts:278 Points:28,265 Joined:Jul 2007	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 8:55:47 AM	Ignore rod1965 Report Abuse
	Somebody tell the IMF and world bank to get stuffed.
radrunner All-Star Author Toronto Posts:642 Points:947,390 Joined:Apr 2004	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 8:54:58 AM	Ignore radrunner Report Abuse
	find non edible plants to make ethanol.
spunky4443 All-Star Author Washington Posts:559 Points:339,150 Joined:May 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 8:53:22 AM	Ignore spunky4443 Report Abuse
	Don't really have an Answer to this Question???????
kanmandoo All-Star Author Detroit Posts:743 Points:797,690 Joined:Jun 2005	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 8:52:47 AM	Ignore kanmandoo Report Abuse
	Everyone should read this, and get informed.
brian77nc Rookie Author Durham Posts:37 Points:29,305 Joined:May 2008	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 8:50:09 AM	Ignore brian77nc Report Abuse
	If Europeans and other countries can implement this, then why can't we? Even gas powered cars over there get WAY better gas mileage than us.
C5vette2004 All-Star Author Little Rock Posts:505 Points:137,440 Joined:Dec 2007	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 8:47:12 AM	Ignore C5vette2004 Report Abuse
	you are going to pay one way or another.
scrounger Champion Author Vancouver Posts:5,710 Points:1,572,160 Joined:Mar 2003	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 8:46:25 AM	Ignore scrounger Report Abuse
	disregarding the fact that the waste is used for feed
priceit Champion Author Portland Posts:7,838 Points:1,465,720 Joined:Sep 2003	Message Posted: 5/14/2008 8:45:28 AM	Ignore priceit Report Abuse
	Alternative fuels are fine, just not ethanol