honda0105
Champion Author
Tallahassee
Posts:18,828
Points:1,637,220
Joined:Nov 2008
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Message Posted: Aug 29, 2012 5:09:27 AM
let's hope this will work...
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remay
Champion Author
Houston
Posts:7,078
Points:2,143,965
Joined:May 2006
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Message Posted: Aug 26, 2012 8:56:13 AM
Biiiiggg exposure! Something that really needs to be addressed! Hope the powers see it that way...
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PDQBlues
Champion Author
San Diego
Posts:7,214
Points:1,476,025
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 9:55:26 PM
orphancarguyPE: If people start generating some of their own power, human nature being what it is will mean they will start looking for ways to lower their demand so that they can sell more power to the grid/buy less from the grid. Its there, so maximize it. Install LED lights instead of incandescent, and so forth.
So true.
Great article. Thanks for posting.
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merlinCO
Champion Author
Colorado
Posts:1,780
Points:369,095
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 9:43:18 AM
All we need to do is produce what we use, we will get there but have to get past the oil mongers who keep politicians in place.
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orphancarguyPE
Champion Author
PEI
Posts:3,905
Points:758,850
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 8:00:29 AM
I'll take issue with 'another 214 Gigawatts needed' Yes, but only if current assumptions are maintained, which is EXACTLY what THIS article is all about--changing the base line assumptions.
Solar PV is expensive, right? (well, it's half the cost it was about a year ago, but you get the idea) I personally slashed my electrical use by thinking outside the usual box, and I'm leading the usual modern life, satellite TV, central vac, refrigerators, freezers, washer, dryer, busy dishwasher etc...all on an average of 6.5 kw/h a day. Sooo....to install sufficient solar PV to be in electricity neutral position with MY house will only cost me $8,000 instead of $24,000, when I was using 3 times the electricity to get the same result. So, my payback time is still the same (reduced electricity use is equal to reduced cost, so a wash) but my OUTLAY out of my own pocket is a lot smaller.
If people start generating some of their own power, human nature being what it is will mean they will start looking for ways to lower their demand so that they can sell more power to the grid/buy less from the grid. Its there, so maximize it. Install LED lights instead of incandescent, and so forth.
So, if more people like me opt for something green, where the payback is LESS than half of the warranteed minimum lifetime of the PV panels, then assumptions about future needs start going out the window. Five years ago, I had the first wallmount solar air heater in a ten mile radius, and now they are popping up all over. Ditto on my roof mounted solar hot water system, and now they are everywhere around here. Yup, and my payback time was well under 5 years, especially true when you are saving over $3500 in heating oil alone each and EVERY year, as I am. That saving pays for a lot of upgrades...
I'm using 1/4 the heating oil I used to, and 1/3 the electricity. Since the more people see it is a success (based on all the people who stop and ask me about my solar systems) and the more other people install it, the more people will consider it. About 1 out of every 2 homes old and new around about in the neighbouring few square miles has some renewable energy now--solar hot water, a small windmill for part of their electricity, solar air heater panels, and especially passive solar design/orientation in the new houses (I was the first around not to have my new house squarely facing the road. Hundreds asked me why? and they got it when I said maximum solar efficiency. Now everyone is doing it) Resistance electric baseboard heating (the worst), electric ranges, and oil furnaces are thinning out quite rapidly. I notice that the oil trucks are becoming rarer, and stats are confirming that.
30% of our grid electricity is now from wind turbines, generating locally in many different locations. Our electricity supply was all off Island, and we were reaching the capacity of the underwater cables to supply more electricity, so with sharply increasing efficiency, and some turbines, the threat of having to DOUBLE our grid infrastructure to get more power in is receding steadily. Not only was importing infrastructure requirements changed
but also future transmission requirements are changing. More places, especially big dairy farms, are generating at least part if not all of their electricity, reducing grid transfer load, but more grid power is being generated very locally in multiple locations, softening the flow-through peaks on the grid itself. Do it larger scale, and you can see that changing how you go about generating AND delivering power, throws all the old standard assumptions of requirements out the window. Back to a more reasonable square one on a new sheet of graph paper.
Every OLD coal fired plant--and most are old and surface upgraded over the years--is a huge win for air quality, carbon emissions, and EFFICIENCY, especially as they are replaced by new technology very high efficiency natural gas power stations (which are also easier to scale in different sizes and very quick to build as well as being cost effective to build)
RASD--an acronym for the next decades. You don't really have to 'give up' anything with new thinking.
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FPLREP
Champion Author
Virginia
Posts:8,401
Points:2,475,810
Joined:Oct 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 6:06:38 AM
An additional 214 gigawatts needed and Obama's EPA steady shutting down coal plants. I guess they demolish their cars before they buy a replacement.
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dave27johnson
Champion Author
Chicago
Posts:1,823
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 4:10:58 AM
Yes, more efficient engines are needed as part of the many breakthroughs in connection with energy collection, distribution and efficient use.
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djgunrunner
Champion Author
Salt Lake City
Posts:10,252
Points:2,376,305
Joined:Apr 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 3:42:50 AM
Thank goodness we have these inefficient energy producers. Without them we would be paying two to four times the amount of a power bill that we are now. That would even bring the price of driving an electric car up.
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TXryder
Champion Author
Texas
Posts:2,854
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 1:05:32 AM
Let's reinvent a government in Washington that is for the people by the people.
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Ahking
Champion Author
Orange County
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 1:03:57 AM
do it.
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OWENALOTT
Champion Author
Appleton
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Points:500,095
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 1:02:21 AM
hmmm...
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hubcapLA
Champion Author
Louisiana
Posts:3,905
Points:940,435
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:34:56 AM
Sounds great to me, I just hope they can do it
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bcok
Champion Author
Los Angeles
Posts:2,181
Points:1,555,520
Joined:Oct 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:30:31 AM
We will all need better technology.
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jimpeel
Veteran Author
Colorado
Posts:462
Points:109,940
Joined:Mar 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:28:04 AM
I used to be a hydrogen advocate; but not any more.
http://mb-soft.com/public2/hydrogen.html
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TFowler513
Champion Author
Memphis
Posts:3,824
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:27:28 AM
Alternatives are the answer!!!
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jimpeel
Veteran Author
Colorado
Posts:462
Points:109,940
Joined:Mar 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:26:23 AM
"additional 214 gigawatts of electrical generation capacity"?
Not if electric cars become the in thing. 214 will be a drop in the bucket.
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r6emperor
Rookie Author
Pittsburgh
Posts:35
Points:256,560
Joined:Jul 2012
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:25:07 AM
214/1.21= 176.859504 flux capacitors worth of power needed
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barber7796
Veteran Author
Oklahoma
Posts:426
Points:292,410
Joined:May 2012
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:24:38 AM
Unlimited energy source could be water: 2 parts hygeron and 1 part oxygen.
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Rageagainsttm
Champion Author
Tampa
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Joined:Jul 2007
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:22:23 AM
nice
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VanIsleLes
All-Star Author
British Columbia
Posts:898
Points:295,295
Joined:Jun 2012
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:20:58 AM
Room for improvement
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tpguess
Champion Author
San Diego
Posts:1,696
Points:395,160
Joined:Jan 2012
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:20:32 AM
Walking... yes... Walking is highly efficient... and cost effective too
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frostyWV
Champion Author
West Virginia
Posts:2,339
Points:519,235
Joined:May 2011
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:18:31 AM
ok
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HA4CNN
Champion Author
Toronto
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Points:1,571,190
Joined:Dec 2006
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:17:35 AM
Community based generation is more efficient and reliable.
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Mermaan
Champion Author
Boston
Posts:1,572
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:17:06 AM
Oh, I read this a long time ago. It's a great site to visit frequently. Keeps you updated on everything.
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TBONE3
Champion Author
Pennsylvania
Posts:8,881
Points:2,004,125
Joined:Mar 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:14:01 AM
They will accomplish the objective - have no doubt!
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bowler360
Champion Author
Illinois
Posts:2,110
Points:527,250
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:13:16 AM
Sweet.
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BigHorne1
Champion Author
Missouri
Posts:1,638
Points:324,475
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:13:10 AM
That sound really good, but don't want no windmill attachment on my vehicle to keep me going down the road. Don't need no electrical vehicle like battery in my vehicle either. The waste of one of those electrical car batteries are more harmful to the environment than two vehicles lifetime of batteries and pollution.
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comprof
Champion Author
Houston
Posts:7,009
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:12:52 AM
33 % not very good.
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JPGASMAN
Champion Author
Ohio
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Points:370,565
Joined:Mar 2012
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:12:47 AM
k
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pachukdog1
Champion Author
Pensacola
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Points:392,410
Joined:Jan 2012
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:08:34 AM
nice
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CountryPeddler
Sophomore Author
Tennessee
Posts:162
Points:101,805
Joined:Dec 2007
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:06:26 AM
let's see if I could make a big profit, I would have these technologies tomorrow.
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DirtDauber
Champion Author
San Antonio
Posts:6,922
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Joined:Nov 2005
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:05:31 AM
No wonder it costs so much.
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mfeldstein
Champion Author
Ottawa
Posts:8,301
Points:1,956,230
Joined:Feb 2007
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:03:52 AM
We'll get there, even if it is too late.
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Tigercat88
Champion Author
North Carolina
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:02:44 AM
The improvements are on going.
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Ron77095
Champion Author
Houston
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:02:06 AM
ok.
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rollercoaster
All-Star Author
Hartford
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:01:47 AM
ok
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GAS1251
Champion Author
Texas
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Message Posted: Aug 25, 2012 12:00:55 AM
We've been improing the efficiency of the internal combustion engine for over 125 years.
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dwh724
Champion Author
Pittsburgh
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:59:34 PM
Okay
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jwalkerh
Champion Author
Louisiana
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:59:26 PM
Ok, keep working on it...
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uglytom
Champion Author
Florida
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:58:12 PM
yup!
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Tiernan
Champion Author
Chicago
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:57:47 PM
Ok
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Jeeputtputt
Champion Author
Ohio
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:57:36 PM
I'll be long gone.........
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PetroScopper
Champion Author
Houston
Posts:6,760
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:56:47 PM
Oil is all we need and if we elect the right guy he will make it happen!
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TheeRedRam
Champion Author
Hartford
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:56:36 PM
Hummmm
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NotmeuQc
Champion Author
Montreal
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:54:48 PM
Keep up the research.
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Badjef
Champion Author
Florida
Posts:4,188
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:52:48 PM
We do all these things...and more. They still aren't satisfied.
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crashintuc34
Champion Author
Tucson
Posts:4,188
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:51:31 PM
It only takes 1.21 to go back to the future.
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boatfloyd
Champion Author
Jacksonville
Posts:1,858
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:48:42 PM
I think we are in trouble.
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langolera
Champion Author
Akron
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:48:26 PM
ok
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slayur
Champion Author
Chicago
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Points:1,238,990
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Message Posted: Aug 24, 2012 11:44:34 PM
ok
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